Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

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Yus
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Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Yus »

Have anybody used espacenet for searching chinese fireworks (strobe/glitter) composition and worked with them?
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/advance ... cale=en_EP
I have found some. What do you thing they are correct?
-----------------------------------------
Red flash inner core (CN1598474)
SrCO3 – 45-50%,
KClO4 – 26-30%,
Mg – 16-20%,
SGRS – 5-6%.
-----------------------------------------
Glowing ray flash star (CN100999429)
BP – 40-60%,
Sb2S3 – 6-8%,
Ba(NO3)2 – 18-22%,
Al – 10-20%,
Dextrin – 3-6%.
-----------------------------------------
White flash-flower effect (CN1936492)
CuO – 15-45%,
Ba(NO3)2 – 15-45%,
AlMg – 15-50%,
Dextrine – 1-3%.
---
KNO3 – 35-65%,
S – 2-15%,
C – 20-50%,
Dextrin – 4-8%.
---
Cores/Matrix = 20-50%/50-80%.
-----------------------------------------
Color changing flash willow (CN101481288)
BP – 65-75%,
C – 20-35%.
---
CuO – 40-60%,
AlMg – 25-35%,
S -5-10%,
Cryolite – 8-15%,
Dextrin – 3-5%.
---
Granules/Matrix = 3/10
-----------------------------------------
Light yellow twinkling effect (CN103694071)
BP – 60-70%,
S – 5-10%,
Ba(NO3)2 – 3-10%,
BaCO3 – 3-10%,
Al – 5-15%,
CuO – 3-10%,
SGRS – 5-10%.
-----------------------------------------
Colorful whistling type firework (CN106380362)
4-chloro-3-nitro-phthalate – 10-15%,
Potassium biphthalate – 15-30%,
Barium (calcium or strontium) perchlorate – 20-30%,
Potassium perchlorate – 35-50%,
Carbon (bamboo charcoal or activated carbon) – 1-5%,
Metal powder (Ti, Al, AlMg) – 1-5%.
-----------------------------------------
White flash composition (CN103601604)
Ba(NO3)2 – 60%,
AlMg – 30%,
KNO3 – 5 %,
Bi2O3 – 2%,
SGRS – 3%.
-----------------------------------------
etc.
Yus
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Yus »

White flash-flower effect (CN1936492)

https://youtu.be/W_bT9_bOs9k
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richardh08
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by richardh08 »

Well done for getting an effect from that patent document. I assume the two examples in your video are derived from the two approximate compositions that are specified in CN1936492. As I see it, the problem is that we don't really know what the effect is supposed to be. With the given range of proportions in the one containing Ba(NO3)2, I reckon you could come up with anything between a mixture that is virtually unignitable and an almost explosive flash. I see that the second composition is supposed to be the body of a matrix star, in which case the first ought to be formed into embedded grains in order to get the effect that is being patented (whatever it is).

In my experience, Chinese pyro patents appear to be written with the express intention of making it as difficult as possible to reproduce the desired effect, assuming you know what that effect really is.

In particular, I have severe doubts about CN106380362, given that most alkaline earth perchlorates are very hygroscopic, if not deliquescent.
Even when I'm wrong, I'm convincing.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Back in 2013, it was required to produce documentation of the chemicals used in consumer fireworks see hear:
https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/phmsa.d ... micals.pdf

Apex fireworks and also standard fireworks submitted documentation I think you can find the files on pyro bin.

However although the chemicals are shown for a listed effect and they all add up to a 100, take it with a pinch of salt I tested a few and found them to be lacking in fact awful.
Yus
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Yus »

1. Some of the abstracts in espacenet.com have bad translation. I also check originals. I agree that some compositions do not work properly. For example, red star from CN1598474 burn with white smoke. But corrected work better.
2. CN100999429 and CN103694071 give glitter effect. Close to Winokur ones. Certain compositions are inside of the body in the main text.
3. Microstars from CN1936492 give exellent effect in matrix comet as well as in fountain. They produce different blooms/sparks and noise.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Yus I found the given formulas by Apex and Standard for ground blooms and crackling flower to work well, however, you don’t need to be a rocket scientist to get an effect with copper oxide/Magnalium/ and nitrocellulose also known as the binder, here is a test on the standard fireworks publication this is one star:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVRNWKIQtUc
Yus
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Yus »

OK. Thank you.
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Yus »

Red + crackling = red strobe microstars.

https://youtu.be/lN4EmRcoOFQ
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Lloyd
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Lloyd »

I'm working - this last couple of weeks - on colored smoke mine stars for a client.

If the formulae turn out to be among the 'public' ones, I'll post them, along with photos (or vids, hopefully) of the tests. If not, I'll still try to get photos and videos.

I have about 15 formula bases to check. But the first one was published, and if it works, it's 'common domain'.

Lloyd
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dave321
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by dave321 »

always interested in coloured smoke lloyd.

i imagine if they for stars from a mine they will need to be quite a fast burning composition to get
a nice smoke trail in the sky
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Lloyd
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Lloyd »

Yes, it'll have to be fast-burning. We're working on it, presently. I have the first five 'test stars' primed and drying. I should be able to test them tomorrow, weather permitting.

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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Lloyd »

Some 3/8" pressed red smokes, dusted lightly with dry comp while they were still wet.

I cannot divulge the formula, because they're for a client, but I CAN 'show them off'.

Tomorrow, if my supplies arrive, I'll be loading a mine, and will film that, also.

Lloyd
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by dave321 »

all good to hear lloyd

happy new year !
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Sulphurstan »

Lloyd wrote: Mon Jan 04, 2021 8:13 pm Some 3/8" pressed red smokes, dusted lightly with dry comp while they were still wet.

I cannot divulge the formula, because they're for a client, but I CAN 'show them off'.

Tomorrow, if my supplies arrive, I'll be loading a mine, and will film that, also.

Lloyd
red stars.JPG
Impatient to see the video!
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Lloyd
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Lloyd »

Hah! Me too! But I can't shoot the mine until some of the 'top seal' film arrives (probably tomorrow).

All I can do now is wait.

Lloyd
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Sulphurstan
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Sulphurstan »

Patience, No problem! Pyrotechnic is a must-have-patience hobby anyway [grin].
But red smoke stars, that tickles me, yeah.
Pyro
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Pyro »

Lloyd, how come you dusted them with smoke composition?
Is it to make a somewhat mixed layer when applying ordinary prime or will they take fire as they are?

Shouldn’t this smoke discussion take place in the smoke thread by the way?
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Lloyd
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Lloyd »

Pyro,
I don't know if they'll ignite properly without prime, or only with it. The 'dusty' finish is an effort to improve their likelihood of lighting without a prime.

And yes, this has developed to the point where it should be in a smokes thread. I was just responding to some earlier posts. But I don't find any sub-forum dedicated to smokes!

Perhaps our administrator can move the posts to where they belong.

Lloyd
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by Pyro »

Lloyd, have you already forgotten this thread?:
http://pyro-gear.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1540

I was planning to post some more results from comparing how different catalysts work on the pure potassium chlorate / lactose system but time was short before Christmas so I hope to start the evaluation next week.

Let us continue in the thread above.
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richardh08
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by richardh08 »

I was going to mention that existing thread in the Chemistry section but you beat me to it, Pyro. In any case, there's no chemistry involved in this discussion, so I don't see the need to move anything.

I also look forward to seeing the results.
Even when I'm wrong, I'm convincing.
dave321
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Re: Chinese strobe/glitter composition from patents

Post by dave321 »

Pyro wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:29 am Lloyd, have you already forgotten this thread?:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1540

I was planning to post some more results from comparing how different catalysts work on the pure potassium chlorate / lactose system but time was short before Christmas so I hope to start the evaluation next week.

Let us continue in the thread above.
i would be interested to hear of your results,
..... and i i still have not found a solution to a chuffing cinnamic acid smoke,
maybe a bit of gas producer to help emit the sublimed cinnamic acid from the composition?
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