Blue touch paper.
Moderators: richardh08, Boophoenix, Lloyd
Blue touch paper.
Yes we really did use before visco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjiW6WD15sA
Re: Blue touch paper.
Finally see how that stuff burns now! It's more 'fuse like' than I anticipated. Interesting stuff, thanks ken
Re: Blue touch paper.
Anyone got a formula for the original stuff? (with lead nitrate)
Re: Blue touch paper.
Actually, I HAVE the formula, but I'll have to dig the book out of the archives.
As I recall, it was simply tissue soaked in a saturated solution of lead acetate (sugar of lead), then dried.
I'll check.
Lloyd
As I recall, it was simply tissue soaked in a saturated solution of lead acetate (sugar of lead), then dried.
I'll check.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Blue touch paper.
Ah! Here we go:
From "Henley's Twentieth Century Formulas, Processes, and Trade Secrets" (1945 printing, copyright 1937)
"fuses" (or as we call it "touch paper")
Potassium Nitrate 2 parts
Lead Acetate 40 parts
Water 100 parts
Bring unsized paper to a very low simmer in the dissolved solution, then cook for 25 minutes.
Remove and dry for 'slow' paper. Simmer for longer for faster papers.
Lloyd
From "Henley's Twentieth Century Formulas, Processes, and Trade Secrets" (1945 printing, copyright 1937)
"fuses" (or as we call it "touch paper")
Potassium Nitrate 2 parts
Lead Acetate 40 parts
Water 100 parts
Bring unsized paper to a very low simmer in the dissolved solution, then cook for 25 minutes.
Remove and dry for 'slow' paper. Simmer for longer for faster papers.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Blue touch paper.
Great Lloyd,
I now know the lead nitrate stops large crystals of KNO3 growing. I was not originally intending to make any as I was doing something slightly different but the debate got going on the UKPS forum.
now I have the bit between my teeth and I want to have a nostalgia experience! so I thought someone here has to know. UK fireworks forum had a bit on it but not enough.
No point having lead nitrate just sitting on the shelf.
EDIT: Just seen your post, its lead acetate not nitrate!
That makes a difference, a big one chemically speaking!
I now know the lead nitrate stops large crystals of KNO3 growing. I was not originally intending to make any as I was doing something slightly different but the debate got going on the UKPS forum.
now I have the bit between my teeth and I want to have a nostalgia experience! so I thought someone here has to know. UK fireworks forum had a bit on it but not enough.
No point having lead nitrate just sitting on the shelf.
EDIT: Just seen your post, its lead acetate not nitrate!
That makes a difference, a big one chemically speaking!
Re: Blue touch paper.
Lloyd, is it O.K. to post the formula on the UKPS forum as well?
Re: Blue touch paper.
Sure! That's straight out of a 1937 book! <grin>
I'm lucky to have a copy, even as worn and threadbare as it is.
Lloyd
I'm lucky to have a copy, even as worn and threadbare as it is.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Blue touch paper.
Thank you Lloyd, for that information I'm much obliged.
I imagine the lead acetate inclusion is a derivative from the old "slow match" - see here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_match
there would also be a degree of conversion to lead nitrate
I imagine the lead acetate inclusion is a derivative from the old "slow match" - see here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_match
there would also be a degree of conversion to lead nitrate
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Re: Blue touch paper.
When is technology going to allow a 'scratch and sniff' type video.... I can almost smell that video, great memories
Re: Blue touch paper.
FWIW, Kentish recommends lead nitrate for 'slow match' (made of cotton cord), and recommends 1/2oz of potassium nitrate in 20oz of water for 'touch paper' (no other chems).
This from our friend Mike Swisher.
I have an original printing (on cotton rag) of Kentish at a re-binder's right now. I haven't touched it, except to send it to him, and expect many evenings of quality reading when I get it back, in PERFECT condition!
Lloyd
This from our friend Mike Swisher.
I have an original printing (on cotton rag) of Kentish at a re-binder's right now. I haven't touched it, except to send it to him, and expect many evenings of quality reading when I get it back, in PERFECT condition!
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Blue touch paper.
Just for the record I made the blue touch using the nitrate only recipe given by Kentish, the only thing I did different was not to soak the paper in the solution, what I did was i hung up the sheets of tissue paper and then sprayed on the solution, it worked great.
Re: Blue touch paper.
That's an interesting point Ken - maybe more rapid drying and hence less larger crystal formation.
Without labouring the point more than I have already over laboured it, chemically there is something going on if simmering for 25 minutes is required and simmering for longer leads to faster papers - over and above simply concentrated the solution ?!?
anyhow, thanks again.
edit : n'ah - can't see the sense of any simmering at all really ?
Without labouring the point more than I have already over laboured it, chemically there is something going on if simmering for 25 minutes is required and simmering for longer leads to faster papers - over and above simply concentrated the solution ?!?
anyhow, thanks again.
edit : n'ah - can't see the sense of any simmering at all really ?
Re: Blue touch paper.
Sambo, I can see the use of it.
In a briefly immersed version, the oxidizers only coat the outsides of the paper fibers.
But cellulose fibers are very-often hollow. If you 'percolate' the mixture long enough, at a high-enough temperature, the oxidizer-laden water will start to penetrate the fibers... the air in them will expand and be exhausted, and something must take that air's place. Capillary action would tend to allow the water to intrude into the hollow spaces.
I would contend that 'only' simmering, without some cooling IN the solution would not be as productive as boiling for a time, then allowing some cooling... for the obvious reasons.
Lloyd
In a briefly immersed version, the oxidizers only coat the outsides of the paper fibers.
But cellulose fibers are very-often hollow. If you 'percolate' the mixture long enough, at a high-enough temperature, the oxidizer-laden water will start to penetrate the fibers... the air in them will expand and be exhausted, and something must take that air's place. Capillary action would tend to allow the water to intrude into the hollow spaces.
I would contend that 'only' simmering, without some cooling IN the solution would not be as productive as boiling for a time, then allowing some cooling... for the obvious reasons.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Blue touch paper.
Interesting, and the only way to really determine the difference is to pull my finger out and test it. Dammit !
Like you say it is vegetable matter, so that makes complete sense, even better then would be a pressure cooker but wouldn't like to try it, apart from the safety aspect I have too many memories of over cooked blasted vegetables when pressure cookers were all the rage - Euch.
Like you say it is vegetable matter, so that makes complete sense, even better then would be a pressure cooker but wouldn't like to try it, apart from the safety aspect I have too many memories of over cooked blasted vegetables when pressure cookers were all the rage - Euch.