Charcoal The real Deal

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Pyro-Gear
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Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

:o
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Right I just made some willow charcoal (that’s weeping willow) I have a river close to my house and picked up some fallen branches and cooked it today not a lot of pay back for the amount of wood used but nevertheless its genuine, tests anybody?
Nightsun
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Nightsun »

I would love to test willow against paulownia, and against my vine standard. I am going to try your resin stars too. I make them only in good weather outside as I do all compositions.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Limited supply of real willow for testing plus my own blend (pyrotechnic grade) charcoal, paulownia is cooking now I would suggest 200grams of either for testing, price on application via pm.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Starfire »

I'm just cooking my first Batch of pine will see what it's like in the morning.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

I made some charcoal with leylandii and that was very fast the burn rate in a ¼ inch tube rammed at 30mm outperformed any commercial charcoal available.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Starfire »

Just had a look at it most of it is cooked there is some that is still wood I left it till there was nothing coming out of the holes, mind you I ran out of fuel it had about two and a half hours.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

When you cooked the charcoal did the volatiles from the vent holes ignite it sound like the temperature was a little low, take a small piece it should snap with ease.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Starfire »

Yes they was burning well and had stopped when I took it of and put a damp towel over I left it over night to cool down the bits that are cooked snap nicely.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Sounds like you’re on a winner Star get it in the mill! :D
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Tyvole »

Well done - it's kinda fun, isn't it? Just a hint - keep a bit back and don't airfloat all of it. It is sometimes handy to have a bit of (say) 40 - 80 mesh laying around.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Starfire »

Thanks Pg & Tyvole milling it now.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

A few years ago I purchased some willow charcoal 400 grams to be exact (eligibly from a major BP manufacture) anyway I kept the bag for reuse, now I have just spooned in 300grams of my willow and the bag is full to the brim? Now same size bag now filled with Paulownia 228 grams? Bulk density of charcoal anyone? By the way paulownia wins hands down very fast.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by richardh08 »

Bulk density of charcoal anyone?
Probably very difficult to measure reliably and consistently. I would imagine it will depend on many factors, such as the precise size and shape of the grains and on how much air is trapped in the bulk of the material, which will depend on its history. I've noticed that freshly milled charcoal, when spooned into a container, can always be compacted into a smaller volume by gentle tapping.

As your observations show, different charcoals do have different densities, but I'm not sure how much further you could go, beyond simply ranking them relative to each other.

I'm convinced that there is a relation between charcoal density and BP speed but I have no idea if that's the whole story.

Yet more potential investigations to add to the 'pending' pile!
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

It appears that the lower the density of the wooden structure remaining, the better integrated the mix and adjoining surface areas - but by the same ratios. So faster growing woods may be likely to have a faster BP result, if made for purpose and not commercially!
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

There is definitely a relationship with fast growing trees and good BP, the tests I have done have used a ¼ tube rammed with 30mm of BP and timed by using a camera and video editing software to get an accurate burn time, I have tested many charcoals this way home cooked and commercial and the results are very interesting.
Milling times on paulownia/willow/plum/CSL can be as low as 1-2 hours, against vine that reaches its full potential at 6hrs but this could be due to the cooking process used by the manufacturers of vine charcoal, my number one all-rounder would be CSL.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

Then I'm definitely not milling for long enough!
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

Vine, for some reason, needs a heavy battering.


Sam's next project - homemade charcoal...... Just saying......
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

Seems that way. I'm happy with that; something I've wanted to have a go at for years.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Aardvark wrote:Then I'm definitely not milling for long enough!

Just about to box up your roller if you want some good charcoal or anything else give me a PM
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

I have willow paulownia plum CSL horse chestnut in stock.
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Aardvark
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

Music to my.. Eyes! Look forward to getting rolling bud.

I think my other half might just kill me if I go and buy any more charcoal than I already have so I'll hold off on that! One thing I do need if you have any are spoilette tubes. Let me know the cost and I'll PayPal it over mate.

Sam.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

I am about to cook some jelutong, balsa, willow and 'secret recipe'.

This is not in competition with PG but for experimentation with a new device for production of charcoal. This will be in action over the next week or so. If successful, I may have enough stock to add to PG's range, so that you may experiment with a wide variety of stuff in rocket and other powders.

Will keep you all posted through PG
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Aardvark wrote:Music to my.. Eyes! Look forward to getting rolling bud.

I think my other half might just kill me if I go and buy any more charcoal than I already have so I'll hold off on that! One thing I do need if you have any are spoilette tubes. Let me know the cost and I'll PayPal it over mate.

Sam.
I will send you a sample of charcoal just to prove a point, tube wise are you after ¼ inch?
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

Looking for tubes to take OB's Chinese time fuse.

Look forward to testing that sample! I'm sure it'll blow mine away and I'll end up replacing my entire stock.

Thanks Ken.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Yeah I will put you in some tubes plus anything else I can find (useful)
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Starfire »

I got 426grams out of that pine I made have not had chance to make any bp with it yet do to work will test it as soon as I can.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

You. Won't. Look. Back.

!

Mass produced stuff will never match the powders available from PG or properly cooked at home!

This is a fact and I'm happy to wager £500 on it!
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

Pyro-Gear wrote:Yeah I will put you in some tubes plus anything else I can find (useful)
Bloody good of you Ken! Please don't put yourself out of pocket though mate, let me know of any costs and I'll happily have it sent over.

Slightly off topic; I'm going to make some more TT stars and would like to extend their burn time a bit. How would I go about sourcing some larger mesh charcoal? Don't have the facility to make my own at the moment but I hear you can mill some stuff bought from the local DIY shop?

Thanks again folks,

Sam.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

You don't really need a larger mesh than you have already. The powder you have, unless it comes as airfloat, is sufficient, just tumble it in without media!

If it is too big it will start to fall!! Lump wood can be used, be aware it needs breaking up a little first as it takes ages to mill down. Lump wood is usually a hardwood and gives a very persistent deep red ember.

You should already be well equipped for persistent tails with that which you already have.

Try adding a 1% of a metal too, to say a half of the batch. See the difference......
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

OB's pine seems air float if not pretty close. I'll have a go anyway.

Would Mafnalium (200-250 mesh) be suitable? Also have a bit of FeTi.

Thanks bud.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

The charcoal you get, as powdered as it seems, is lumpy enough for tiger tail. Theconlyvway to realise this is by having airfloat charcoal for comparison!

Magnalium is good for a leading edge effect, but FeTi is much better for a trail!
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by pyrojig »

I would go with the Fe/Ti as well. The sparks will hang longer and brighter. The use of fine charcoal mixed with some 80 mesh is a nice combo. I would use at least 5% -10% metal for a nice streamer , and sub 1/4 of your fine charcoal for the 80mesh charcoal to thicken and lenghten the tail.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by pyrojig »

I have tried willow charcoal, paulownia , and pine for comparrison . Paulownia takes the lead followed by willow and then pine. Pine is close to the speed of willow, and cheap to obtain. It doubles as a great spark producer . It is not uncommon to see many pyros use just pine charcoal for both their bp and stars comps.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

10 more minutes and I'll have milled some of the 'cat' charcoal for 6 hours. Thanks for the sample PG - I'll report back soon!
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

Holy :shock:

Unbelievable. I thought I'd made BP a month ago.. Charcoal MAKES bp! Now to replace my entire stock with 'cat'...

That opened my eyes.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by richardh08 »

Here are my preliminary test results on PG's 'cat' charcoal:
CatCharcoalTest1.jpg
I milled for up to eight hours, taking test samples from time to time. The linear burn rate seems to stabilise after about five hours of milling, at a speed of about 2 seconds for a 30mm column in a 1/4 inch ID tube. It seems pretty fast, but I need to do some comparative tests with other charcoals.

The density of the compacted column also rises with milling time, and there seem to be minor improvements in the burn rate, measured in grams per second, up to a milling time of around seven hours.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

At two seconds for 30mm that’s fast, it would seem we have the same burn rate on my tests the best I got was 1.8 seconds, the charcoal seems to hit a wall at 6hrs, I don’t know about your run but my BP is still very black and the smoke produced is very light.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by richardh08 »

Yes, mine is very dark too. Haven't tried an open-air burn yet, been too busy ramming little tubes!

Will try it tomorrow, and also see what I have lying around to compare it with.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

richardh08 wrote:
Will try it tomorrow, and also see what I have lying around to compare it with.

Don't bother trying sand if that's lying about - just a pointer. :)
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by richardh08 »

Thanks for the tip, pal!

Stranger things have been tried:

"Do you want to know how to make your own gunpowder from such easily accessible items as dead cats, (PG, please note, it's been done before!) whiskey, your living room ceiling, manure, ‘fool’s gold’ and maple syrup?" - from the back cover of ‘The Do-it-yourself Gunpowder Cookbook’ by Don Mclean.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

I'm led to believe honey was used in the first gunpowder! Well, black powder.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Alchemists in search of the elixir of eternal life used honey water and Nita boiled, one day it boiled dry hence a flame thrower erupted the salt used would come from dried pools of pigs urine this was a common source as well as cesspits.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Nightsun »

I have found the elixir of life to be a 75ml of Honey Jack Daniels in a glass with Coke.......finding yourself in a puddle of pigs urine is inevitable.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by richardh08 »

That's all very well, but I still don't see where the dead cat comes into this. Gonna have to read that book - just had to order it, and it's already on the way to me!

In a - no doubt vain - attempt to restore this thread to some form of sanity, I have to report that a single test indicates that BP made with PG's 'cat' charcoal is around 23% faster than that made with (my) willow charcoal.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Pyro-Gear »

That’s good news, I have no doubt your willow is as good as you can get I have tested my own against the dead cat and my timings are around 2.5-2.2 roughly, so what have we achieved, well between us we have dispelled the willow myth as being the best charcoal you can have for BP (burn rate) gas production has yet to be proved, I wonder Richard should we let the cat out the bag? Or keep it for the book, yes I would like some sanity on this subject as well I take my charcoal serious, Monday I will send you another charcoal to test at your leisure no hurry, great work Richard a credit to this forum indeed.
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Tyvole »

This is getting more interesting by the day. Well done chaps! My homemade willow was too fast for the 1/4in rockets - I had to add 10% pine to slow them down a bit. I can add that there is a plethora of lightweight wooden giraffes in the 'pound' shops over here, so I might just have to investigate those. :-) However, all of this 'need for speed' quest leaves me wondering what would be the best use for such fast BP?
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Aardvark »

Lift and burst!
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Tyvole »

But, as PG said, those both depend on the gas production rather than simply burn rate - unless of course those characteristics happen to be related...?
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Re: Charcoal The real Deal

Post by Niall »

Physically speaking, gas production should always be about the same. Is the rate at which it produces it that will differ if the reaction is well balanced. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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