PVB Glitters

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sambo
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PVB Glitters

Post by sambo »

Is PVB pretty much out for glitters - anyone had any luck with any at all ?
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Lloyd
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Lloyd »

Never tried it, Sambo. I have two glitters to my credit. The most-popular is called "buttered popcorn glitter", and has found favor with a number of folks. But, it is bound with dextrin.

(sorry)
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Pyro-Gear »

I am franticly trying to put together a formula package for PVB I have tested some glitters those being:
Winokur 20/28 and 30 I have had no issues, buttered popcorn is on the list.
Tyvole
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Tyvole »

Buttered popcorn is super. Didn't know it was yours, Lloyd. Thanks!
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xanbond
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by xanbond »

Would anyone be willing to share a couple of PVB formulas ? I have worked mostly with dextrin and Parlon and would like to see first hand what all the hype about PVB is especially when it comes to strobe/glitter formulas. Cheers.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Pyro-Gear »

We are still running tests, but so far regarding glitters and strobe compositions there seems to be no adverse effects on glitter formulations, but there is definitely an improvement in the performance on strobe formulae.

PVB is a binder and a fuel so no dextrin or red gum is needed, we have a handful of formulas that we have tested and we are still working on more.

PVB can be used to bind and fuel as low as 2%:
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Lloyd
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Lloyd »

Ken,
I'm still in the throws of dealing with a client problem. Have you (or could you) test the PVB with my "Buttered Popcorn" formula?

PVB would be GREAT for that, if it doesn't change the effect.

It would be nice, if possible, to compare the dextrin formula side-by-side with the PVB version.

Thanks,
Lloyd
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Pyro-Gear »

I will test that for you Lloyd no problem, I did a snow ball effect with PVB and it works fantastic.
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richardh08
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by richardh08 »

Well, it's not 'Buttered Popcorn' but I've just run a test on Winokur 16, with and without PVB.

The results, for a couple of 10 mm pumped stars, are here: https://youtu.be/JgcE--_qxVo.

The first star is standard W16 and the second is with the dextrin replaced by an equal amount of PVB. It's only one trial and the video isn't that good, but the impression I get is that:

1) the burn time is about the same
2) PVB appears to give a slightly sparser effect, but with a longer delay and brighter flashes.
Even when I'm wrong, I'm convincing.
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Lloyd
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Lloyd »

That's VERY promising, Richard!

Delay time can be altered by changing the Al mesh size or the 'delay agent' quantity. If the flashes are brighter, that is even a better sign!

Thanks!
Lloyd
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Tom Schroeder
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Tom Schroeder »

I think you would find replacing the dextrin percentage with a 1:1 blend of nitrocellulose PVB would give results closer to the original.

Tom
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richardh08
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by richardh08 »

W16 specifies the use of -80 mesh magnalium, which I don't have, so I used -60 mesh. As Lloyd points out, that would have the effect of increasing the delay, regardless of any additional change caused by swapping the dextrin for PVB.

I'm aiming at a composition that can be easily rolled, but my initial attempt (hand-rolling a very small number of stars, as I do for initial trials) showed a few problems. The stars rolled nicely round, as is typical for compositions bound with PVB, but the mixture separated, leaving behind most of the metallic component. I've just noticed that I have some -100 mesh MgAl, so maybe using that - and perhaps working on a larger batch size - might sort out both issues.

Tom, your idea of using a mix of NC and PVB sounds worth a try. Are you thinking of just a mix of the powdered substances, or are you suggesting they should be pre-dissolved?
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Tom Schroeder
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Tom Schroeder »

Richard,

They should be predisolved and blended into a "lacquer". If you are rolling stars you would best off not using acetone and choosing a slower evaporating solvent for the nitrocellulose.

Tom
xanbond
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by xanbond »

Lloyd,

I was wondering if you or anyone you know of attempted your Butter Popcorn Glitter where they substituted the Sodium Bicarbonate with Cyrolite and if they had any success with it. The main reason for my question is I would prefer Cyrolite over anything Sodium Based due to the Hygroscopic Issue.

Sean
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Lloyd
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Lloyd »

Sean,
The bicarb is not particularly hygroscopic. However, you might want to look up the formula for cryolite before you really commit to that theory! :?

Lloyd
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Tom Schroeder
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Tom Schroeder »

Sean,

If you are looking for full drums of nitrocellulose solutions this Company in Malta should have the right contacts to find it for you. http://www.coleiro.com/companyprofile.html

Tom
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Pyro-Gear »

I would stick to the bi carbonate, Hygroscopic issues won’t be a problem especially in your climate.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Nice find Tom, I have offered 25 kilos of Nobel Prills to the club for free, and that’s a lot of lacquer!
Tom Schroeder
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Tom Schroeder »

That's a generous offer Ken. Moving chemicals across international borders can be a real problem these days. Having a relationship with a small distributor who is importing similar materials can certainly be very help.

I think people are going to be very pleased with the results they see using nitrocellulose PVB blends.

Tom
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by Pyro-Gear »

You know Tom my life, well most of it was spent in Malta, a little bit of payback time I think, shipping well yeah not cheap around £55 to ship but hey I would not be here if it was not for the maltase
xanbond
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Re: PVB Glitters

Post by xanbond »

I' ll check with the supplier you sent me for the NC, also try the butter glitter with the sodium bi carbonate.

Sean
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