I static ground-tested one of my 10mm pumped Winokur 20s today and was rather disturbed. It ignited easily from a bit of visco and sort of 'sputtered', which seemed vaguely promising. However, it did not burn up completely, but left quite a lot of black, glassy-looking globs of residue. Would this be normally expected from a static test for this comp? I realise that the in-flight behaviour is going to be somewhat different, but I've got 6 & 10mm pumped stars, some go-getters, a couple of 'Ken's Inserts' and even a few 16 x 16mm pumped comets
I'm now a bit nervous about throwing any of this stuff into the air, especially those comets and the g-g's. Do you guys think my caution is justified or unnecessary?
Wino-blob 20?
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Wino-blob 20?
"If you don't learn anything, what's the point?"
Re: Wino-blob 20?
Winokur 20 is a beautiful star and very long burning and is still used in a lot of Chinese products to this day mainly large rockets, the star dose indeed produce some dross and dependent on altitude of the shell/header there is a good chance that some of the stars will still be glowing and hit the ground having said that from my experience the glowing dross is not that hot and extinguishes itself rather rapidly on contact with terra firma or your head in my case!
Just a couple of things when I make Winokur 20 I mill all the components EXCLUDING METALS for at least 2hrs then screen in the metals I then wet the composition with 90% water 10% alcohol.
The finished star can be used without a prime but I like to prime mine with BP this gives an even ignition and the whole star burns as one, if you have not primed the stars then I would suggest doing so, the 16mm comets primed would look spectacular on top of small shell plus I guarantee they will ignite in the mortar on the way up so no fusing to the comet.
The static test sounds about right and as you say an air test will show a different behaviour, the glass looking residue is just the slag from the iron oxide.
Not sure on the go getters the inserts should be ok you just may need to get a good height on them
Just a couple of things when I make Winokur 20 I mill all the components EXCLUDING METALS for at least 2hrs then screen in the metals I then wet the composition with 90% water 10% alcohol.
The finished star can be used without a prime but I like to prime mine with BP this gives an even ignition and the whole star burns as one, if you have not primed the stars then I would suggest doing so, the 16mm comets primed would look spectacular on top of small shell plus I guarantee they will ignite in the mortar on the way up so no fusing to the comet.
The static test sounds about right and as you say an air test will show a different behaviour, the glass looking residue is just the slag from the iron oxide.
Not sure on the go getters the inserts should be ok you just may need to get a good height on them
Re: Wino-blob 20?
So, I did a mini-show for a friend's party tonight, using a mix of items. I knocked up a 50mm bag mine with around 30 each of 6mm pumped stars in Ken's Blue and unprimed W20 (mines are a bit more forgiving with regard to priming, having a longer ignition opportunity than a shell). Have to say it worked a treat, reaching around 15m or so, and the combination was really lovely. The bigger W20 items will definitely need more altitude though!
On a safety side note: one of a pair of 16-shot commercial cakes I used in my little show blew itself apart - my post-mortem revealed that a corner tube blew up, removing its bottom plug and maybe an inch of tube. This action damaged 3 of its neighbours, bursting their tubes near the bottom and knocking them out of the cake, while at the same time igniting not only the dislodged tubes but also random parts of fuse in the remainder of the cake. With tubes going off at ground level, it caused a tense few moments and left me very pleased that a) I had observed the minimum safe firing distance and b) I had adequate water available to put out the small resultant nearby grass fires. The identical partner cake performed according to plan but I was much displeased with such a failure. This just goes to show that it is always possible for events to deviate from the plan. Be prepared!
(On a more positive note, none of my items misbehaved, though a little more lift would have been advantageous with a couple.)
On a safety side note: one of a pair of 16-shot commercial cakes I used in my little show blew itself apart - my post-mortem revealed that a corner tube blew up, removing its bottom plug and maybe an inch of tube. This action damaged 3 of its neighbours, bursting their tubes near the bottom and knocking them out of the cake, while at the same time igniting not only the dislodged tubes but also random parts of fuse in the remainder of the cake. With tubes going off at ground level, it caused a tense few moments and left me very pleased that a) I had observed the minimum safe firing distance and b) I had adequate water available to put out the small resultant nearby grass fires. The identical partner cake performed according to plan but I was much displeased with such a failure. This just goes to show that it is always possible for events to deviate from the plan. Be prepared!
(On a more positive note, none of my items misbehaved, though a little more lift would have been advantageous with a couple.)
"If you don't learn anything, what's the point?"
Re: Wino-blob 20?
Well done on the show I think it safe to assume you’re pretty pleased.
Ironic that the commercial cake failed it just goes to show that mishaps do happen, I would think that the failed tube had an overdose of lift or a jammed insert, but a big well done on the risk assessment that certainly paid off.
Hope the blue was better this time I tweaked the formula a little to combat the sodium emissions from the not so pure perchlorate, keep up the good work Alan I will drop you a PM later,
Ironic that the commercial cake failed it just goes to show that mishaps do happen, I would think that the failed tube had an overdose of lift or a jammed insert, but a big well done on the risk assessment that certainly paid off.
Hope the blue was better this time I tweaked the formula a little to combat the sodium emissions from the not so pure perchlorate, keep up the good work Alan I will drop you a PM later,
Re: Wino-blob 20?
With the benefit of hindsight and the way the 6mm W20 stars performed from the mine, I now reckon that the inserts would be ok too, launched from the 15mm rocket tubes. (The Spanish Fuchsia ones reached a fair height, probably 20 - 25 metres, which would give enough burn time for the W20. After all, the inserts don't have a very thick layer of comp, maybe only 4 to 5mm.) However, the expected burn-time means that the 10mm stars and the comets will definitely have to be taken higher aloft on/in a shell and I'm looking forward to those tests. W20 gives a lovely effect. I'm glad I did my static testing beforehand though and didn't just fill my bag mine with the bigger 10mm stars. Putting out the grass fires after that would have been really embarrassing...Pyro-Gear wrote:Not sure on the go-getters, the inserts should be ok, you just may need to get a good height on them.
Hope the blue was better this time I tweaked the formula a little to combat the sodium emissions from the not so pure perchlorate.
Regarding the Ken's Blue, these were from my original batch which is now just about used up, made with the sodium-contaminated perc. They work, they're blue - a bit pale but still pleasing to the eye. I think, with purified material, the original comp proportions should give a really good result.
"If you don't learn anything, what's the point?"