Looking for a streamer that...

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Aardvark
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Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

I can roll! Having a really hard time rolling anything with a high charcoal content so I'm looking for a comp that uses fine metals for a tail. I'm aiming to roll blue6 relay7 streamer11 prime12 for use in 4" ball and 3" can shells.

I'm running low on Al at the moment but have a lot of Antim/Tri and 60-140# Ti sponge. Also have plenty of MgAl for use as fuel and of course plenty of Perchlorate. From what I've read, Antimony makes for a nice, tailed, white star? That'd suit my plan fairly well but I'd prefer more of a streamer style star where the tail steals the show.

Look forward to any information you can give me chaps and I hope you're all well.

Sam.
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

Oooo... Might sub that blue for purple! Just had a request from my better half and I have to agree, that sounds like it'd make for a lovely star.

Anyways..!
Starfire
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Starfire »

I made a batch with this formula
Potassium nitrate 62
Antimony trisulfide 17
Sulfur 17
Dextrin 4
They were a very bright white and long burn
time, I cut them but they roll ok.
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

Looks like a nice one to me mate, may sub that dextrin for phenolic but I can't see it having any negative effect.

Thanks mate :)
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

Sorry to bother again Ken, just wondering whether you can advise me regarding this streamer comp given to me by Starfire. I'm looking to roll it over purple cores but can't decide whether to use a relay? I can't see it being as essential as when rolling two veline colours but apparently this comp burns bright white so wouldn't want to wash the purple out.

Potassium nitrate 62
Antimony trisulfide 17
Sulfur 17
Dextrin 4

Cheers mate.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Pyro-Gear »

It’s hard to say how the effect will show in the air as you have two compositions with different burn rates, also a nitrate/perchlorate combination that could lead to problems.
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

Ahhh I see. Definitely don't want to cause any unwanted reactions. I understand that TT comps also have a nitrate oxidiser but are there any cores I could safely roll it on? I will get some TT's up in the air...
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Pyro-Gear »

I’m not saying there will be a reaction, but with the given composition (that is fine) I am not sure as to the purple coming through very well if at all.
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

I'd rather not take a risk at all to be honest. I've seen TT rolled onto blue for a very nice effect... Just thy pesky chlorate/nitrate issue in the way!
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richardh08
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by richardh08 »

As far as I am aware, in principle, there are no chemical incompatibility issues in rolling a potassium nitrate mix over one based on potassium perchlorate.

I believe Ken's main concern is that the result might not look too good in the sky. Blues and purples are intrinsically not that bright and might end up being overshadowed by a bright white outer layer, especially if that layer is relatively slow-burning.

Your original idea of a streamer would, in my opinion, be more aesthetically pleasing, but would need aluminium.
Even when I'm wrong, I'm convincing.
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

Oh! My lack of Chemistry knowledge threw me right off. Thanks for the clarification bud.

I think you're right there, it would result in an inferior colour change. I'll either go for a streamer styled outer layer or a brighter core.

Thanks both :)
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Pyro-Gear »

A brighter core will not help, the particular spectrum of colour you wish to make is difficult to achieve with a streamer effect with such high content of antimony, Robert Winokur would be a good place to start the majority of formulas will suit your needs, or just use the formula I sent you? This will give a beautiful trail like a purple comet and rolls superb
Niall
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Niall »

Agreed, PG is pointing to burn rates here, to prevent unwanted jetting and wash out of the other colours.

However, If your inner is a slow burning blue/purple/violet and your outer is a fast burning white, you should end up with a blue finish. The white will always kill the blue unless it is exhausted previously. But if you have two differing temperature burns exposed on one star, it will move unexpectedly away from the hot side! This is more pronounced if your inner core is hotter than your outer, and will produce jetting, an uneven burn rate will likely wash out your primary colour in this circumstance if temperature is a factor in the colour being produced. Jetting in itself will lead to unpredictable darting across the sky like flying fish. Not completely unwanted as an effect of itself, but you want to be able to discern and predict it for the effect you desire!
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

Had a go at rolling TT mix over a blue. I think they're usable but not up to the standard I hope for.

I'm set on the look of TT stars but really find charcoal a terrible ingredient to roll. Are there any non charcoal stars that give a similar effect? I don't mind what colour the tail is, as long as it gives a similar effect! So no bright star but a long lasting streamer.

Thanks chaps,

Sam.
Niall
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Niall »

I'm not sure why you are having trouble with charcoal, can we have a look at what is going wrong?

What is your method?
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

They aren't raspberry..ing but they're still lumpy? It's safe to say they aren't round.

My method is generally to take it VERY slow. I wet, add small amounts of comp then leave to roll our for a few minutes.
Niall
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Niall »

Forget the lumpiness. Trying for perfectly round stars is a nonsense in itself, there is no function in perfect symmetry, especially for a tailed effect. The stars will still stack in the shell, and nobody, including yourself will be any wiser.

I would encourage you to slow down even further, let the roller do all the hard work. leavethe sars for a longer period in between layers, this will lead to a more compact star too. Mine do come out round, round enough.

What solvent are you using?
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

50:50 water/methylated spirit. I'm drying enough for a 4" shell so we'll see how they perform then. It just concerns me how oddly shaped they are..

Thanks bud.
Arran
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Arran »

Might want to try wetting more with some type of surfactant added ( alcohol / soap) . Look up the toro method on YouTube. Different charcoals and size of charcoal particles roll differently
No doubt though they are a bastard to roll specially when you start to incorporate metals as well
Niall
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Niall »

Your solvent is a huge problem!!!!!

I would advise 75:25 water:meths, but I would go further and advise IPA!

You need to change ratios, use 50:50 only as a starter!
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

Ahhhhh okay. I've found a 50:50 mix for veline style stars suits perfectly. Didn't know it was detrimental when rolling charcoal based stars.

Any idea where I can find IPA on the high-street?

Thanks again mate.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Just use the methylated spirit, yeah it has a slight amount of methanol and a colorant but it won’t make one iota to the end product against IPA.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Arran also makes a good point worth looking in too.
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Aardvark
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Aardvark »

That settles that then, thanks all.

Should I be wetting liberally to allow the roller to smooth out any lumps or should I treat the rolling as I would for most other stars; slight wetting and small amounts of comp? Today's attempt was TT+8%Ti, would that Ti have much of a detrimental effect whilst rolling? I love the effect it gives but am happy to settle for the usual TT.

The Toro method is Extremely interesting. I've seen a few videos on it. Would it be a suitable option for rolling charcoal comps? I'll have to do some reading on the exact method involved.
Niall
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Re: Looking for a streamer that...

Post by Niall »

The toro method might advance you, but it is a pain in the ass. Little water and loads of time is the way to go when rolling.

75:25 is your standard rolling ratio, except for special cases. Otherwise you are throwing money away.
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