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 Post subject: First Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:25 pm 
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I'm making my first foray into smoke mixes. I am completely new to this topic. Can anyone suggest a good starting point for formulas / or what literature to refer to on the topic. Are they all made using chlorates ( forgive me if that's a dumb question ).

Sam.


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:18 pm 
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Sam,
Yes, they're nearly all made with potassium chlorate, because of the lower temperature of decomposition of that oxidizer. Smoke dyes can be easily destroyed by too-high temperatures. To that end, they are almost always extremely fuel-rich, with only enough oxidizer to help vaporize the dyes.

Of interest in your explorations might be Shimizu's napthtalene (old-style moth balls) black smoke. It won't keep forever, even in shells, because of the high vapor pressure of napthalene, but it's especially dense and beautiful!

Lloyd

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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:29 am 
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Lancaster has one or two formulations, including (in Shimizu's chapter) the naphthalene one that Lloyd mentions.

I haven't really experimented with them, but I know that most coloured smokes use potassium chlorate with a low-temperature fuel such as lactose or sucrose, and a very large percentage of the dye.

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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:06 am 
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Richard,
I've made both ball shells and mines with the napthalene formula. It's astounding!

Lloyd

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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Ron told me recently he'd been making that napthalene smoke. I had to take a pause reading your post Lloyd as I was struck by you describing the effect as beautiful, which not being familiar with these compositions took me aback - I hadn't thought of smokes as beautiful in that sense. I'm going to get on with this and give it a whirl. I've been told it is seriously messy - any tips for keeping the mess down or is it a question of bite the bullet.

Sam.


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:06 pm 
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Sambo,
Smoke DYES are messy as hell, and you should set-aside an outdoor tent and table (covered with disposable plastic) in/on which to work. I'll warn you right now... DO NOT make those in your shop, and wear protective over-wear (a complete painter's suit isn't out of the question).

But the napthalene smoke is not messy -- no messier than any other 'regular' star. It's just 'smelly'. Naphtalene is not a dye; it's a white crystalline substance.

Lloyd

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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:00 pm 
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One of our old company videos Sam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZGWFj11SUs formula is in the description


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:55 am 
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that's impressive for only 10g of composition! Can these be used indoors or does it dye everything?


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:59 am 
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Although the dye is non-toxic Sam I would not try it


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:10 pm 
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I had a go at this pressed into 1 inch pellets. I used +5% dex to bind and am wondering if this was a mistake as they tend to flame and the smoke output is quite low. Any suggestions ? Am I better to press into a tube as you suggest in your video Ken ?


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:14 pm 
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This looks pretty impressive and no chlorate !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1I2SuS2Z1JM


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 11:26 pm 
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Funny you should be doing this sam, I have just done the same thing myself and started with tim sleights violet smoke dye. I used a chlorate, lactose, MgCO3, wood powder, dye mix.
the dye content as richard says is about 46% and chlorate 26-28%. All very finely divided.

I was decanting the dye powder into a decent container and spilled it!!!!!!

It went everywhere and took an hour to clean up. I had violet feet, violet legs and have stained the porcelain of my belfast sink violet in places.
The dust is so light it hangs in the air for ages.

I have some fluorescent dye as well and will be testing that with a powerful 368nm U.V. light I made and a high power 405nm LED 'black light' (not really UV at all) also home made.
I will also try it with 254nm light but I don't reckon the high energy will penetrate the smoke. Might make some Ozone though!

Look up some of the KNO3/sugar/coloured wax recipes. There is an indian guy who sets light to his mixture on the cooker by mistake. DOH.

The KNO3 mixtures look attractive as they work well for small money.

One thing I have learned is the composition must be in a tube with a nozzle (bentonite). the vapours must pass through a nozzle and the ash of the burned composition and be packed in well.

Construction is as important as composition.


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:12 pm 
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Thanks Rob,

that's some helpful info. I spoke to a "smokes expert" today who makes these professionally and he suggested using lactose rather than sucrose as it produces less of the cakey ash. I'm going to give that a whorl too and let ya know.

Sam.


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:42 pm 
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sam check these out

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/Colored%20Smokes.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: First Smoke
PostPosted: Tue Aug 22, 2017 4:54 pm 
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That is absolutely fantastic - is that all your hard work?


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