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 Post subject: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 4:25 pm 
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Yes we really did use before visco https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjiW6WD15sA :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Finally see how that stuff burns now! It's more 'fuse like' than I anticipated. Interesting stuff, thanks ken :)


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Anyone got a formula for the original stuff? (with lead nitrate)


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:11 pm 
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Actually, I HAVE the formula, but I'll have to dig the book out of the archives.

As I recall, it was simply tissue soaked in a saturated solution of lead acetate (sugar of lead), then dried.

I'll check.
Lloyd

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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:17 pm 
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Ah! Here we go:

From "Henley's Twentieth Century Formulas, Processes, and Trade Secrets" (1945 printing, copyright 1937)

"fuses" (or as we call it "touch paper")
Potassium Nitrate 2 parts
Lead Acetate 40 parts
Water 100 parts

Bring unsized paper to a very low simmer in the dissolved solution, then cook for 25 minutes.
Remove and dry for 'slow' paper. Simmer for longer for faster papers.

Lloyd

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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:28 pm 
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Great Lloyd,

I now know the lead nitrate stops large crystals of KNO3 growing. I was not originally intending to make any as I was doing something slightly different but the debate got going on the UKPS forum.
now I have the bit between my teeth and I want to have a nostalgia experience! so I thought someone here has to know. UK fireworks forum had a bit on it but not enough.

No point having lead nitrate just sitting on the shelf.

EDIT: Just seen your post, its lead [i]acetate[i] not nitrate!

That makes a difference, a big one chemically speaking!


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:47 pm 
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Lloyd, is it O.K. to post the formula on the UKPS forum as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Sure! That's straight out of a 1937 book! <grin>

I'm lucky to have a copy, even as worn and threadbare as it is.

Lloyd

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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:10 pm 
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Thank you Lloyd, for that information I'm much obliged.

I imagine the lead acetate inclusion is a derivative from the old "slow match" - see here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_match

there would also be a degree of conversion to lead nitrate ;-)


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:35 pm 
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When is technology going to allow a 'scratch and sniff' type video.... I can almost smell that video, great memories


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:43 pm 
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FWIW, Kentish recommends lead nitrate for 'slow match' (made of cotton cord), and recommends 1/2oz of potassium nitrate in 20oz of water for 'touch paper' (no other chems).

This from our friend Mike Swisher.

I have an original printing (on cotton rag) of Kentish at a re-binder's right now. I haven't touched it, except to send it to him, and expect many evenings of quality reading when I get it back, in PERFECT condition!

Lloyd

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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:20 am 
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Just for the record I made the blue touch using the nitrate only recipe given by Kentish, the only thing I did different was not to soak the paper in the solution, what I did was i hung up the sheets of tissue paper and then sprayed on the solution, it worked great.


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:08 pm 
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That's an interesting point Ken - maybe more rapid drying and hence less larger crystal formation.

Without labouring the point more than I have already over laboured it, chemically there is something going on if simmering for 25 minutes is required and simmering for longer leads to faster papers - over and above simply concentrated the solution ?!?

anyhow, thanks again.

edit : n'ah - can't see the sense of any simmering at all really ?


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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:42 pm 
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Sambo, I can see the use of it.

In a briefly immersed version, the oxidizers only coat the outsides of the paper fibers.

But cellulose fibers are very-often hollow. If you 'percolate' the mixture long enough, at a high-enough temperature, the oxidizer-laden water will start to penetrate the fibers... the air in them will expand and be exhausted, and something must take that air's place. Capillary action would tend to allow the water to intrude into the hollow spaces.

I would contend that 'only' simmering, without some cooling IN the solution would not be as productive as boiling for a time, then allowing some cooling... for the obvious reasons.

Lloyd

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 Post subject: Re: Blue touch paper.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:09 pm 
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Interesting, and the only way to really determine the difference is to pull my finger out and test it. Dammit !

Like you say it is vegetable matter, so that makes complete sense, even better then would be a pressure cooker but wouldn't like to try it, apart from the safety aspect I have too many memories of over cooked blasted vegetables when pressure cookers were all the rage - Euch.


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