Tube waxing article
Moderators: richardh08, Boophoenix, Lloyd
Tube waxing article
I've been told by Dave Forster, the inventor of the tube-waxing method for rockets, that he'll have a new re-write of his method available in - well - perhaps a week.
It'll be worth the wait.
Lloyd
It'll be worth the wait.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Tube waxing article
Great Lloyd, I really look forward to that, at the moment I must admit I dilute with naphtha and it's a P.I.T.A.
Re: Tube waxing article
Yes very cool. I have to say even what I am doing seems to be very effective. I've obviously made a number of improvements to my techniques and materials which also must help but I am sure the wax is having a huge impact on reliability.
Sambo, why don't you melt a pan of wax and pour in enough to fill the tube then lift the tube and it pours out the bottom. I watched Ned Gorski's YouTube tutorial and essentially copied it and it works like a charm. You need the wax nice and hot and you need to move quite quick so you don't get a really thick build up inside the tube but it's pretty simple and I coated about 20 tubes in a few minutes. I didn't have that handy metal cone so my results were a bit messier but it works just as well.
Have a look https://youtu.be/l_HHjwT1heM
Sambo, why don't you melt a pan of wax and pour in enough to fill the tube then lift the tube and it pours out the bottom. I watched Ned Gorski's YouTube tutorial and essentially copied it and it works like a charm. You need the wax nice and hot and you need to move quite quick so you don't get a really thick build up inside the tube but it's pretty simple and I coated about 20 tubes in a few minutes. I didn't have that handy metal cone so my results were a bit messier but it works just as well.
Have a look https://youtu.be/l_HHjwT1heM
Cheers
Sparky
Sparky
Re: Tube waxing article
I know this is a slight deviation from using wax but have people tried adding graphite to the composition or even dusting the insides of tubes prior to ramming to also assist with consolidating the fuel grain?
I understand waxing may have other benefits too but I wonder of a small percentage of graphite in your composition may be even more useful and simpler than working mineral oil into the composition using solvents.
I understand waxing may have other benefits too but I wonder of a small percentage of graphite in your composition may be even more useful and simpler than working mineral oil into the composition using solvents.
Cheers
Sparky
Sparky
Re: Tube waxing article
They have, Sparky. The slight lubrication afforded by graphite doesn't accomplish everything necessary.
Next post, the article.
Lloyd
Next post, the article.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Tube waxing article
Dave Forster's update of the waxing method, including alternate methods, and the "why" of it all.
http://www.pyrobin.com/files/Reducing%2 ... ets-V2.pdf
Lloyd
http://www.pyrobin.com/files/Reducing%2 ... ets-V2.pdf
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Tube waxing article
Wow - that's a really great article. Thank Dave for us please. I have always used the naphtha method as this is what I heard about first and I thought it was needed to help penetrate the wall of the tube - clearly not - sounds like I need to make a dauber.
Re: Tube waxing article
I will pass along your compliments.
Dave's a good guy, and will appreciate hearing it.
Lloyd
Dave's a good guy, and will appreciate hearing it.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Tube waxing article
By the way, if you've not read the article (or even if you have, and missed this),
This method of "tube waxing" has been in use since the 1960s for flare-making. It was touted then only as a means of lubricating the tubes, in order that the pressing forces would not collapse the tubes.
Only, now we understand that it has other significant benefits.
Lloyd
This method of "tube waxing" has been in use since the 1960s for flare-making. It was touted then only as a means of lubricating the tubes, in order that the pressing forces would not collapse the tubes.
Only, now we understand that it has other significant benefits.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Tube waxing article
i believe also it constituted to some form of protection from storage issues.
Re: Tube waxing article
I couldn't tell you about civilian uses. I know for a fact that military flares would not require any additional 'internal' storage enhancements, because they are (pretty much all) hermetically-sealed in metal containers, and can last for many decades in storage -- waxing or no.
Lloyd
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Tube waxing article
All I can say is that this waxing lark is a revelation to me. Send him my thanks too. I may well have managed to get reliability back through other "improvements" I was making to my manufacturing of them but I am utterly convinced that I would not be getting away with 60:30:10 with what I think is willow charcoal and milled for an hour and rammed by hand not pressed IF I was not waxing the tubes as I now am.
I can't wait to get some readings of the thrust or at least add a few dummy headers to see if I can lift a 3 inch shell ok.
I can't wait to get some readings of the thrust or at least add a few dummy headers to see if I can lift a 3 inch shell ok.
Cheers
Sparky
Sparky
Re: Tube waxing article
Hello all. I would like to thank Lloyd for taking my simple discovery and helping to make it into a handy tool to keep in the rocket-maker's toolbox, wherever he/she might live! Also, thanks folks for the kind words about the article.
After another overly thick coating session with the pour method, I swore to only use a dauber from now on. That's not the only swearing I did. Anyhow, my latest dauber for 3lb (25mm?) rockets was made from an old felt boot liner that had the heel blown out. I punched out circles with an arch punch. This is made easier if you use a base plate of Lexan with a piece of cardboard on top. Punches discs at the same time! Then I punched out small holes in the centres to mount them on a piece of threaded rod. I stacked a dozen felt discs tightly, sandwiched between 2 washers and fastened with nuts.
The dauber looks ugly because it is hard to punch a hole straight down through the floppy felt. The stack looks uneven, like a stack of pancakes. However, it works perfectly. The dauber scrapes down the sides of the tube interior and prevents over-application of the wax.
After another overly thick coating session with the pour method, I swore to only use a dauber from now on. That's not the only swearing I did. Anyhow, my latest dauber for 3lb (25mm?) rockets was made from an old felt boot liner that had the heel blown out. I punched out circles with an arch punch. This is made easier if you use a base plate of Lexan with a piece of cardboard on top. Punches discs at the same time! Then I punched out small holes in the centres to mount them on a piece of threaded rod. I stacked a dozen felt discs tightly, sandwiched between 2 washers and fastened with nuts.
The dauber looks ugly because it is hard to punch a hole straight down through the floppy felt. The stack looks uneven, like a stack of pancakes. However, it works perfectly. The dauber scrapes down the sides of the tube interior and prevents over-application of the wax.
Re: Tube waxing article
Welcome Dave and thank you to you. Your method has certainly revolutionised the way I make rockets to lift headings. I think you also have to consider that you've actually made things safer in many ways purely by virtue of the fact that my CATO rate has fallen to zero for the time being !
I'm still using wax diluted with Naphtha - looks like I really need to make that dauber !
I'm still using wax diluted with Naphtha - looks like I really need to make that dauber !
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Re: Tube waxing article
Ordered this off eBay cut the cone off works great with up to 3/4 inch ID tubes for the filling method.
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2081714583
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 2081714583
Re: Tube waxing article
Well, Jon,
It's cheap enough... but why not just make your own funnels from soda cans and tape? It's easy, and they work so well we use them in commercial production.
Lloyd
It's cheap enough... but why not just make your own funnels from soda cans and tape? It's easy, and they work so well we use them in commercial production.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
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- Posts: 32
- Joined: Sun May 21, 2017 12:20 pm
Re: Tube waxing article
Yes that's a good and cheap option Lloyd never thought of it at the time ,and was obsessive about getting a solid cone like Neds. Lol.
It's a very informative article and now I'll try the daubing next time I'm waxing tubes.
It's a very informative article and now I'll try the daubing next time I'm waxing tubes.