12mm Getter Tooling

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sambo
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12mm Getter Tooling

Post by sambo »

Planning on making some TR-Style Skittle Go-Getter Rocket Headings for this summer. Made myself some 12mm tooling for the purpose and will put these in a 3inch can heading is the plan.

Will let you know how it goes.

http://www.pyrobin.com/files/IMG-3398.JPG
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biffo
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by biffo »

Nice one Sam how long will the finished getters be? I'd like a tool for the a little shaped stars like Boos got. Good luck B
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Boophoenix
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Boophoenix »

Cool beans. Making tooling seems about as fun as making Pyro.

Are you referring to the chicklet pumps Biffo?
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Lloyd
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Lloyd »

"Cool beans. Making tooling seems about as fun as making Pyro. "
------------
Yeah... now you're beginning to understand my "disease"!

I spent the first half of my pyro career designing formulae and methods of production for commercial goods. Now I spend the bulk of my time building tools and materials handlers to do the tasks!

<grin>
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
sambo
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by sambo »

Too right Lloyd, I think you would be a "dangerous" person for me to ever actually meet - both you and Brad for that matter. I think I'd end up truly diseased for sure. This video is a bit old now, but just look at all the machines here :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzcDY6I_RHk

Biffo, I'm not sure about the Chiclet pumps - presumably that would involve milling or machining? It has taken a while for me to get the hang of turning but I'm getting there. The stars will be 15mm long, 12mm wide with a 5mm to 4mm tapered core of 13mm in length.
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Lloyd
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Lloyd »

Sam, yes.

Thanks. I've seen that vid before, but had to shut it down out of "machine envy"!

<grin>

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
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Boophoenix
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Boophoenix »

Wow, crazy stuff in the video. I think I recall Kyle from Passfire being a little excited about some of the Makerspaces out in Cali when he moved out there.

I wish I would have had a better experiance when I went to machine school back in 90. After some months there I never touched a machine nor learned a thing while there except it is difficult to teach non nationals math. I eventually hit my limit of 12 hour work days and night classes for nothing and dropped out. Had I stayed I would have hopefully learned to operate CNC machinery. They did have some nice machines there even then. Since then I have never had access to nor the real interest till the last year or so. Still a little difficult to tinker with not having a machine to run a program.
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biffo
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by biffo »

Yes Sam I think it would probably have to be milled,but it's basically just a slot oblong and a covering plate with a rammer .the photos are in one of Boos posts I think .you could even radius the things to make fitting in a cylinder easier,glad you are getting the hang of your lathe now Sam great stuff.B
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Boophoenix
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Boophoenix »

Biffo, the individual pump in the photo is one of TR’s pumps. I do have a multi pump in the tool box that can be seen in the bottom right corner of the drawer. Interesting you should bring up better fitting, the plate does have the corners on one side relieved for fitment purposes of the stars. I can get picture if there is any interest for such? I maybe should state that it is not of my design or handy work.

This is thread discussing the chicklet stars a little for others reading this. Interestingly enough checking the link goes directly to TR’s pump the toolbox drawer photo I reference above is at the start of the thread.

viewtopic.php?t=1202&p=10966#p10966
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biffo
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by biffo »

That's the one Boo thanks. B
sambo
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by sambo »

ok so I'm learning some good lessons. My tooling is a pile of crap. sleeve is far too short and fiddly and there is too much play on that length of sleeve which just causes a mess with the comp binding the tooling. As it's effectively a core burner I've turned a new set based on pressing onto the core, ie the core forms the base and I can use a single increment of a predetermined amount of composition then just remove the base and pump with a piston from the other end to remove the star.

what I'm also finding is that the piston will easily slide one way through my sleeve but will bind if I flip the sleeve around and push the piston through the other end. I can't figure this out in my head why this is but I'm thinking there must be something out on my lathe and the error must run along the bed and be the same for each piece ?

I need to find some metalworking classes....
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Lloyd
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Lloyd »

Sambo,
It sounds like the ends aren't turned 'square' to the diameter. A TINY amount of 'trimming' might fix that.

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
sambo
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by sambo »

You were right Lloyd, thanks. I had taken it out of the headstock to check the fit and then put it back before I faced the end but must have been slightly out. All fixed now and pumping beautifully. I think I have found the way forwards. Hopefully some pictures to follow.

Lloyd is there a way of dabbling in CNC milling, or milling for that matter, without a huge outlay - where would you start if you were starting at the beginning? I'm thinking something really simple like a crossette tip.
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Lloyd
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Lloyd »

Eh... I don't know any 'inexpensive way' to get into milling that you'd be happy with.

But first, let's address the 'squaring issue'.

Whenever you put a piece of cylindrical stock (already-turned or not) into the chuck, the FIRST thing you must do is 'true it'.

Although it's a crude method, the simplest way is to put a tool in the cross-slide, advance it until it JUST makes contact with the 'far end' (from the chuck) of the work, and see what the misalignment might be. With the chuck 'snug' (but not TIGHT) you then gently tap the outer end of the work until it aligns with the tool to your desired precision. A few 'tricks', like 'halving your distance from the furthest clearance' will speed the process.

On the other... a lot of guys have bought inexpensive and small Chinese mills. I bought an OLD (and worn) US-made mill, then upgraded the motors and bearings. There's not any 'really cheap' way to get into the craft.

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
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Boophoenix
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Boophoenix »

Sambo, there was a video at Ned’s that I believe Maxium may have posted of a fella making a crusiform on a lathe. It was pretty slick. He supported the material via the tool post and used the chuck to rotate the bit. Just invert the normal practice of using a lathe.

After work today I’ll try to poke around for it and post it. Google can’t find it at the moment.
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Boophoenix
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Boophoenix »

While this is cut a little extreme from my tastes it gives an idea of what I was talking about.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XDSc8ftzgso

The crusiform isn’t required Lloyd’s done tons of crossettes with squarish tooling.

Oops, just reread your post. Your interested in getting a mill. They are quite fun and handy just like a lathe. I often wish I would have learned something and stayed in school when I went after high school. I’d probably be able to run CNC equipment now. Maybe one of these days.
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Lloyd
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Lloyd »

Heh! You made me wonder, Boo! I had to go back over some old records.

We here in this shop (on one press!!!) pressed (And filled, And coated) almost NINE TONS of finished crossettes here. All with square cavities. All with very-close to perfect '4-segment' splitting.

Wow! I never ran the numbers before, in terms of gross weight! (It was always an "annual thing" for ATF, but I never totaled it all up!)

Lloyd
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sambo
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by sambo »

9 Tonnes! That's some serious work. Crossettes and cavity stars have become a bit of a thing for me at the moment. I use have a 23mm tool with a square cavity - I don't always get perfect 4 part splitting, every tenth crossette or so will generally break into 3. That's with Buttered popcorn bound with SGRS and 2 turns of 40gsm paper. I also lightly coat them with NC lacquer before I paste to help seal the paper to the stars.

As for the milling - that's pretty interesting Brad and really quite clever, I think I could do that, at least I'm game to try. I guess in some ways it's a blessing there is no cheap entry-level mill so to speak as that pretty much puts an end to that pipe dream and keeps me on track?

I really don't have an excuse for not aligning things properly when chucked. I even have a dial indicator with a magnetic base so I'm lacking discipline.
Sam
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Lloyd
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by Lloyd »

Sambo,
I still cannot reveal my burst and coating processes, because my prior employer still manufactures the crossettes of my design.

But I CAN say that the nature of the burst mix and 'uniformity' of the containment have a lot to do with the burst pattern.

I've given 'hints' here-and-there about the burst, but not about the containment method.

We had less than 0.5% of our crossettes fail in any manner in theme parks over that almost-12 years. And most of the 'failures' were simply their breaking into two or three parts, instead of four. The parks we dealt with took videos of every show, and took the time to analyze them. So, when something went wrong, we heard about it in just a couple of days! (URK!)

Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
sambo
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Re: 12mm Getter Tooling

Post by sambo »

ok thanks Lloyd, I may have just figured out what line to go down. Mike Swisher often talks about rolled shots and the traditional method - in fact I have a round-holed 1.5 inch crossette pump for shot bursting. I will think it through.
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