Black match.
Moderators: richardh08, Boophoenix, Lloyd
Black match.
Normally when I make black match I use gum Arabic, yesterday’s run I used PVB with denatured alcohol and wow what a difference, really nice smooth finish and a nice even coat, and better flexibility to boot.
Re: Black match.
I'm going to have to try that, too.
My only objection to "traditional" match has been its brittleness.
I would be interested in knowing how it's un-piped and piped (3-strand, minimum) burn rate compares to match with other binders. I've noticed with other pyrotechnic comps that 'flexible binders' often subdue the burn rate some.
Lloyd
My only objection to "traditional" match has been its brittleness.
I would be interested in knowing how it's un-piped and piped (3-strand, minimum) burn rate compares to match with other binders. I've noticed with other pyrotechnic comps that 'flexible binders' often subdue the burn rate some.
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Black match.
Ok I did speak to Richard about the tests I had done with PVB/BM before he went on his holiday and I am sure he will back up what I am going to say.
The black match burned far faster than normal, this would fit in with all the research to date, all my PVB stars burn hot I know that.
With the black match I had to cut down on the ratio of the BP, flexibility is improved over any other binder I have tested to date, Lloyd I will take a stab at the burn rate using 75/15/10 milled for 2 hours with the addition of 5% PVB at around 1.5 centimetres a second, pipe that and it is instant, two 1mm strands work fine piped.
The black match burned far faster than normal, this would fit in with all the research to date, all my PVB stars burn hot I know that.
With the black match I had to cut down on the ratio of the BP, flexibility is improved over any other binder I have tested to date, Lloyd I will take a stab at the burn rate using 75/15/10 milled for 2 hours with the addition of 5% PVB at around 1.5 centimetres a second, pipe that and it is instant, two 1mm strands work fine piped.
- Boophoenix
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:49 pm
Re: Black match.
I've wondered for a little while how PVB would do as a binder in BP. I'm not sure what brought that thought about since I first started reading about it. Maybe the fuel value was what lead me to wonder that.
Re: Black match.
well great minds Lloyd and you think as an engineer, it works.
Re: Black match.
Don't say that to my wife, or you'll get a two-hour argument! <G>
Lloyd
Lloyd
"Pyro for Fun and Profit for More Than Sixty Years"
Re: Black match.
Have made some coated oat hulls with pvb as the
binder they seem fast, have not tested in a header
yet, I coated them in my pyro gear star roller.
binder they seem fast, have not tested in a header
yet, I coated them in my pyro gear star roller.
Re: Black match.
Interesting, I have granulated BP with PVB but not tested it on MCRH, PVB has a very good fuel value the whole subject is still wide open.
Re: Black match.
Yeah my wife wants me sectioned, yet run out the door to see a PVB star test saying OH I love these ones!Lloyd wrote:Don't say that to my wife, or you'll get a two-hour argument! <G>
Lloyd
-
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:27 pm
Re: Black match.
The PVB is defiantly the best resin for the job making flexible match. On a cost basis it's a bit expensive to be used where the adhesion and flexibility is not a requirement of the application. Nitrocellulose currently about 1/2 the price commercially, plasticized with 20 to 25% camphor will give more "bang for the buck" in the black powder.
Tom
Tom
- Boophoenix
- Posts: 968
- Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:49 pm
Re: Black match.
Thank ya Tom. I'll have to check to see if I might can still get some and give that a try sometime.
Always so many items to add to the stash.
Always so many items to add to the stash.
Re: Black match.
And it smells nicer ! Tom, do you mean with solid block camphor ( at room temperature ) dissolved in with the NC / Acetone mix ? Is there much of an advantage of camphor over castor oil ?
-
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:27 pm
Re: Black match.
Yes Sam,
The same stuff you can buy in cubes at Indian markets. It's a flammable solid and a solvent type plasticizer for nitrocellulose. Far superior to castor oil which will not take fire as easily and can migrate into the charcoal.
Tom
The same stuff you can buy in cubes at Indian markets. It's a flammable solid and a solvent type plasticizer for nitrocellulose. Far superior to castor oil which will not take fire as easily and can migrate into the charcoal.
Tom
-
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:02 am
- Location: Thailand
- Contact:
Re: Black match.
I'm not sure why there ia a need to produce 'faster' blackmatch. Are you talking about thin strands to make quickmatch ? if so isn't it fast enough already once in a pipe ? If you want something faster and more explosive there is always the horrible rubbery perc based quickmatch that seems to be flooding the market these days.
I think milled 75/15/10 with dextrin as the binder and 1% CMC to help hold the slurry in suspension produces a match that is as good as we need for most fireworking applications.
Most of what I make myself is 1 and 1.5 mm match for use in Spollette nosings, passfires and leaders on cylinder shellls, I don't need it any faster than it already is. Seems to me a case of 'if it ain't broken don't fix it' or is there something I am missing here?
I think milled 75/15/10 with dextrin as the binder and 1% CMC to help hold the slurry in suspension produces a match that is as good as we need for most fireworking applications.
Most of what I make myself is 1 and 1.5 mm match for use in Spollette nosings, passfires and leaders on cylinder shellls, I don't need it any faster than it already is. Seems to me a case of 'if it ain't broken don't fix it' or is there something I am missing here?
Last edited by Paul Moulder on Sat Jan 02, 2016 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Black match.
what I am saying is the BM I made with PVB burns far faster than I expected there is no need to have fast BP in QM I understand that and I agree there is no reason to re-invent the wheel, my post was about how PVB increased the burn rate on my normal stock BP slurry, I have had to cut back on the charcoal and the salt a little too tame it.
The whole exercise was to investigate the fuel properties of PVB, one thing I would say is PVB black match is far more forgiving to abuse.
The whole exercise was to investigate the fuel properties of PVB, one thing I would say is PVB black match is far more forgiving to abuse.
-
- Posts: 228
- Joined: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:27 pm
Re: Black match.
The PVB match does have some improvements over standard black match.
1) It is more flexible and abrasion resistant.
2) A lighter coating weight of powder can be used and not flake off.
3) It is waterproof.
4) A very low grade of reclaimed fiber twine would adhere well to the PVB coating.
5) It dries faster than water based match.
While it is certainly debatable that any of this is of value when the match is used in the typical shell building applications. And it very well may be over engineered, it is none the less the "Rolls Royce" of match.
Tom
1) It is more flexible and abrasion resistant.
2) A lighter coating weight of powder can be used and not flake off.
3) It is waterproof.
4) A very low grade of reclaimed fiber twine would adhere well to the PVB coating.
5) It dries faster than water based match.
While it is certainly debatable that any of this is of value when the match is used in the typical shell building applications. And it very well may be over engineered, it is none the less the "Rolls Royce" of match.
Tom
-
- Posts: 64
- Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:02 am
- Location: Thailand
- Contact:
Re: Black match.
All improvements then Tom, thanks for your input. The waterproof property I like the sound of.
Re: Black match.
As PVB is activated with ethanol, rather than soaking the hulls first in warm water (as you would if using dextrin) would they be soaked instead in the ethanol, prior to mixing with bp in the star roller? Then spraying down with ethanol as required? ThanksStarfire wrote:Have made some coated oat hulls with pvb as the
binder they seem fast, have not tested in a header
yet, I coated them in my pyro gear star roller.
Tom
Re: Black match.
Looks like this one is down to me.
Not having tried to coat MCRH with PVB as yet I will have to just give you my thoughts on the procedure, firstly don’t add the PVB to the black powder, just dissolve the PVB in alcohol around 2-3% and just use the solution to mist spray the husks while adding your BP.
This is the way I make micro stars and it works well, the only drawback I can see is when you soak the husks in hot water they do swell and open up, maybe it might be wise to do this first and let them dry out for a while before coating.
Ken.
Not having tried to coat MCRH with PVB as yet I will have to just give you my thoughts on the procedure, firstly don’t add the PVB to the black powder, just dissolve the PVB in alcohol around 2-3% and just use the solution to mist spray the husks while adding your BP.
This is the way I make micro stars and it works well, the only drawback I can see is when you soak the husks in hot water they do swell and open up, maybe it might be wise to do this first and let them dry out for a while before coating.
Ken.