Restricted chemicals in Malta.

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Locky Smith
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Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Locky Smith »

Hi All.
Maybe this first part of my question would be directed to Ken, but I would love other people's opinions of the the second part ( and the first if you can)
Question; what chemicals used in the construction of pyro are banned in Malta but not elsewhere. ie Paris green and what difference would it make?.
The reason for my question is that in the Malta competition, the Maltese can only buy from Malta, but the other international companies can buy worldwide, including Malta. And one of the score categories is colour.
Does anyone know if this would make much of a disadvantage to the Maltese?
Thanks,
Locky
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Lloyd
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Lloyd »

Well, Locky,

I don't know the list banned in Malta, but the lack of Paris Green shouldn't impair anyone's attempts at good blues! It produces - at best - a poor blue compared to most of the modern formulae -- whether they be chlorate or perchlorate oxidized.

Lloyd
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Locky Smith
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Locky Smith »

Thanks Lloyd, I will try and get some other examples for your opinion.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Locky the majority of the factories buy in from Nitro Paris in bulk and also from a company in Italy.

Mount Carmel have always been the envy of other factories for their colour and probably still are in my opinion, now the reason for their success is around 5-6 years ago some guy got hold of some PVB and also phenolic resin and developed a range of new formulations colour wise that is.

Just a suggestion get the guys to make up a few 3 inch shells using my PVB compositions as published in AFN and go test them.

Paris green, well that chemical is not the key to a super blue, as Lloyd said modern formulas can surpass any Paris green formula I know of.

Chemicals that are banned in Malta, well they have to follow the EU document that was published in 2013 just the same as the rest that are stuck in the EU and yep you guessed it Paris green is on the list.
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richardh08
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by richardh08 »

Copper acetoarsenite (Paris green) is one of the compounds of arsenic that are explicitly excluded from being subject to EPP licencing in the UK.

I don't know if the list is different in Malta, or if they have other legislation that affects what substances can or can't be used.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Pyro-Gear »

sambo
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by sambo »

Thanks Ken,

that's interesting, if you look closely, also, it states in the U.K. that the regulations don't apply to display fireworks. So my understanding is that display firework shells would be allowed to contain the items in the second table eg red lead.

thanks,

Sam.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Sorry Sam this is an old project I was working on so not updated.
In a word no you can’t manufacture (legally) any item for re sale that contains lead or any of the other items listed.
However we are talking about manufacturing in Malta <grin>
Locky Smith
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Locky Smith »

Thanks everybody for the above, from the second table it states no liquid. Excuse my silly question but I thought lampare shells contained liquid?.
Also would it make a difference if the manufacturer were the end user in a competition?, ie like the exemption from CE marking?
Thanks
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Lloyd
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Lloyd »

Locky, I'm not free to give you the formula for contractual reasons, but I designed and made "solid-state lampare" for years, for theme parks.

It's entirely 'do-able'.

Lloyd
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Sure they contain liquid, lampare shells could contain diesel or whatever as long as it not listed you should be fine
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Best guy to get on board on this subject is Boo he knows his stuff.
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Boophoenix
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Boophoenix »

While I have done a few liquid lampare as rocket headings they were just done assisting a friend. The issue I could see with them in production in liquid form is leaking. Most fuels expand and contract quite a lot. I have heard of people storing them though.

I have to agree with Lloyd. I don't see any reason why most solid powdered fuel mines could not be altered to preform just about as well. Both are a fuel air reaction with residual flame sources to ignite them when conditions are right. The standard creamora would be a difficult success without additional items to prevent clumping and compaction though I think.

I don't do many aerial items at home so once it leaves the ground it's a weak area for me. I do however play with fair amount of fuels as liquid fuel mines. Having probably done nearly 100 now. I've done a fair amount of research and question asking with these. At PGI I took a liquid fuel mine class just to see if there was anything new to learn. The first question asked by another participant was can ya use Pyrodex. The instructor replied no. I had to raise my hand and disagree. The slow motion video I posted a while back with the nice mushroom and smoke ring was lifted with Pyrodex. It took four tries to get it to display how I wanted though after blowing the original test shot blind.

One Maltese fella has two experimental formulas I haven't lifted yet. He got discussing things with Bill Corbett whom I often shoot with and learned most of my knowledge of this field from and got asking Bill questions. Bill then asked me. I've not seen nor heard of any of them being used yet. I'm fairly certain one of them should it be functional would get some attention and buzz. Unless it comes out soon in a competition. I've heard a Mexican fella has a formula to what one of mine should do, but have not seen proof or heard a formula.

Since I'm a little weak in the chemistry side I discussed the formulas with the fella ( Chris Spurrell ) who brought ghost mines into more of a main stream and wrote some nice articles about them. I requested that he or I be the first to display the effects should they work before he shared any details publicly though.
Locky Smith
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Locky Smith »

Thanks everybody. It turns out that one of the international competitors did use a large shell that had ingredients that are banned in Malta, can't think what it was though, doh!.
Maybe one day I will get to make one of the above, I have just applied for my apprentice licence in Malta.
Adr2412
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Adr2412 »

Hi Guys

I am a "hobby" pyrotechnician from Malta. My Area of speciality is development of new safer formulations mostly based in PR, PVB, Magnalium and Magnesium. If I gather the talk properly I believe I have met Locky Smith before around here. The one thing which I regret not having legally available here is Ammonium Perchlorate to make a nice red strobe. The heavy reliance on Chlorates by most factories makes that impossible. Besides that we can make do a lot with what is at hand.

I work with the Mount Carmel Fireworks Factory and I am reponsible for the vast majority of the bright colours and multitude of colour effects having learnt it the hard way myself from what I read here and there. What got me here is Kens and Rich's (Sorry if I got the names wrong) research on non heavy metal Crackling. More than anything I am looking for a rollable crackle composition which from what I have read seems possible. Thanks for sharing the work. If there is anything you deem I can be of help with please let me know. Some things I can say publicly others will have to remain private so I suggest engaging in private.


If anyone wants to befriend me on FB here below please find my profile.

https://www.facebook.com/adrian.zahra.3?ref=bookmarks.
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Lloyd
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Lloyd »

My mind is probably just playing tricks on me, but I don't call to memory what chemical is "PR"... ???

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Adr2412
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Adr2412 »

Come on Lloyd put some more effort to it. It may come with a cross linking agent or without one. Many a time it is a bit of an orangey yellow colour somewhere in between dextrin and red gum in terms of consistency. It dissolves in most alcohols. Now I am sure you got to it. An it surely aint Public Relations.
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Mixer
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Mixer »

You have to make allowances - Lloyd is an `oldie` :lol:
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richardh08
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by richardh08 »

Careful what you say about 'oldies' - Lloyd is younger than me :lol:
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Lloyd
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Lloyd »

Ah... phenolic resin! That's one reason I (almost nearly always) refuse to use abbreviations for chemical names! I do occasionally trip-up and do it, but seldom.

I will sometimes use their chemical formula, sometimes their 'given' names, but almost never a 'short-hand' -- If it confuses an 'oldie' like me, think what it must do to someone new to the art! C'mon, guys! Even on a cell-phone, we're only talking a handful of seconds more typing in order to make the content fully-understandable.

(How's THAT for an 'excuse' for not knowing what it was? :lol: )

Lloyd
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Adr2412
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Adr2412 »

Lloyd wrote:Ah... phenolic resin! That's one reason I (almost nearly always) refuse to use abbreviations for chemical names! I do occasionally trip-up and do it, but seldom.

I will sometimes use their chemical formula, sometimes their 'given' names, but almost never a 'short-hand' -- If it confuses an 'oldie' like me, think what it must do to someone new to the art!

Lloyd
From what I read here and there you are not the type that gets confused quickly when it comes to the art of fire. But still sorry for the confusion. It is indeed Phenolic Resin.
Adr2412
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Adr2412 »

https://youtu.be/gYDNpY7cUOg?t=529

My compositions at work
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Lloyd
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Lloyd »

Those are nice colors, although 'video' seldom does them justice. Good job!

Easily-confused? No... I've been doing this (professionally) for a while! I sometimes get IMMENSELY CONFUSED by the results of various new (and old) formulae, as chemical constituents change with vendors, but I am not usually quickly-confused. It sometimes takes me a while to realize I'm not getting what I wanted! <grin>

But... and for the record... I strongly-believe in using the correct names or chemical formulae of ingredients. Especially if I am the one giving advice, I want no misunderstanding about what ingredients I'm recommending.

Lloyd
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Adr2412
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Adr2412 »

As one friend once said in science and engineering there lies no mistery just ignorants who do not comprehend what is happening. Many a time I have been on the ignorant side of it all. That is where it all starts.
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richardh08
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by richardh08 »

Like Lloyd, I try not to use abbreviations unless I'm sure they are in such common usage that there is little chance of confusion.

Somewhat belatedly, welcome to the forum Adrian. I would be surprised if you hadn't met Locky (Ben). As far as I can tell, he knows just about everyone connected with fireworks in Malta!

The crackle that Ken and I reported in the February 2017 AFN (replicated in the 'Useful Files' section) is certainly rollable - Ken has done so very successfully. There is another phenolic resin bound composition listed near the end of the 'Crackle mix/dragon eggs' topic in the 'Chemistry' section. It contains 41% Bi2O3 so it isn't exactly heavy metal free but, in my experience, it seems to work very well. I haven't tried rolling it, but I reckon it should be OK.
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Boophoenix
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Boophoenix »

As still a relative newb I have to totally agree with Lloyd. It is difficult at times to trace down what someone is implying. Having no prior chemistry background entering the hobby a few years ago the alphabet of letters was quite a challenge. It was compounded even more so by our US clubs using short hand and events as well.

As Lloyd once mentioned give the full name at least once then short hand versions later does seem acceptable. If I skim to quickly and miss the original refrence then it would be on me for not paying closer attention.

I am guilty of being lazy occasionally or in a hurry and using KNO3 instead of potassium nitrate or Al for Aluminum, but rarely any others. While it’s not ancient Latin to me anymore some still catch me, but it’s not so bad looking up one instead of looking up a whole formulas worth.

I’m not trying to be a critic just recalling what it was like when I first entered the manufacturing doorway. With as many browsers instead of members I see poke around I’d assume many are likely in the boat I was in not so long ago.
Adr2412
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Adr2412 »

richardh08 wrote:Like Lloyd, I try not to use abbreviations unless I'm sure they are in such common usage that there is little chance of confusion.

Somewhat belatedly, welcome to the forum Adrian. I would be surprised if you hadn't met Locky (Ben). As far as I can tell, he knows just about everyone connected with fireworks in Malta!

The crackle that Ken and I reported in the February 2017 AFN (replicated in the 'Useful Files' section) is certainly rollable - Ken has done so very successfully. There is another phenolic resin bound composition listed near the end of the 'Crackle mix/dragon eggs' topic in the 'Chemistry' section. It contains 41% Bi2O3 so it isn't exactly heavy metal free but, in my experience, it seems to work very well. I haven't tried rolling it, but I reckon it should be OK.
I am more tempted to try tge Cuo. Magnalium. Atomised Phenolic one. Plan is to create fibe granulate cores onto which to roll further. My objective is to actuallu include some Ti in that as well. say 6 to 7 pc. What do you think is it worth trying out ?
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richardh08
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by richardh08 »

If I remember correctly, Ken created his cores by granulating a sample of the mixture through a 20 mesh screen and then rolled them with a spray of the phenolic resin dissolved in alcohol. The finished, primed grains were no more than 3.5mm in diameter.

I'd advise getting them to work without any additives before trying the effect of including any Ti.
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Lloyd
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Lloyd »

I agree with Richard on 'additives'. The fancy-looking Chinese 'brocade' stars are nothing more than conventional crackle with added titanium particles.

As the Ti increases, the explosiveness of the stars lessens, to the point that when done right, they hardly make noise, but make a pretty titanium-only chrysanthemum in the air.

So... get them reliable and LOUD before adding any visual effects.

Lloyd
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Adr2412
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Adr2412 »

Lloyd wrote:I agree with Richard on 'additives'. The fancy-looking Chinese 'brocade' stars are nothing more than conventional crackle with added titanium particles.

As the Ti increases, the explosiveness of the stars lessens, to the point that when done right, they hardly make noise, but make a pretty titanium-only chrysanthemum in the air.

So... get them reliable and LOUD before adding any visual effects.

Lloyd

Thanks for the advise. I can fairly say that I have come to your same conclusions with most crackle the mesh of titanium you put in and the amount seems to have quite an effect in reducing the explosiveness. That said though adding atomised aluminium has had the effect of delaying and allowing the reaction to propagate deeper into the granule before it goes off into a sharp bang. This I have discovered out of pure coincidence (like many things in life) when I tried to reap out a white spark by adding atomised aluminium instead of titanium. I am also interested to see what adding copper in a crackle gets me to given that Copper is less easily consumed by an oxidation reaction than aluminium ( metal reactivity series).
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richardh08
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by richardh08 »

I think I can say, with a high degree of confidence, that adding copper to a crackle composition will prove disappointing.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Agreed, the effect will be lost totally.
Ben Lambert
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Re: Restricted chemicals in Malta.

Post by Ben Lambert »

Adrian, you met both Richard and I in the fields a couple of years ago at your feast. You kindly explained about your setup while Daniel was showing us around.
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