Strontium perchlorate.

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Rob.L.
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Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Rob.L. »

Hi All,

Does anyone have any experiance or knowledge of this?

I am planning to synthesize some via the Perchloric acid route. I am aware the anhydride is potentially unstable so it is more the uses in pyro rather than the risks I am interested in.

Thanks.
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richardh08
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by richardh08 »

In principle, it ought to produce a good red without the need for a chlorine donor.

However, if I recall correctly, it is too hygroscopic to be of practical use.
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Lloyd
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Lloyd »

Richard,
Perhaps in a non-aqueous formula with 'enough' external protection before firing, it might be usable.

We made some VERY hygroscopic formulae for close-prox work, but had to go to extra lengths to package them with impervious wrappers and desiccants inside to keep them long enough to be used.

Lloyd
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richardh08
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by richardh08 »

Presumably, Lloyd, people only to that amount of trouble if there is no easier way to obtain the required effect.

Strontium perchlorate is very soluble in water – about 175 grams per 100 ml at room temperature. As normally prepared, the crystals contain water of crystallisation but all the data sheets I’ve seen are curiously reticent about how many molecules of water are involved; the most explicit says ‘about 3’. Both of those facts suggest to me that its hygroscopic nature is likely to be a significant problem.

Red is arguably the easiest colour to produce pyrotechnically. Apart from satisfying their intellectual curiosity, why would anyone complicate matters by using strontium perchlorate when much simpler solutions exist?

On the other hand, I wouldn’t want to stop anyone experimenting with it. Who knows what interesting facts might emerge?
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Lloyd
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Lloyd »

"Red is arguably the easiest colour to produce pyrotechnically. Apart from satisfying their intellectual curiosity, why would anyone complicate matters by using strontium perchlorate when much simpler solutions exist?"
------------------------------

I agree. I was only arguing in the positive because there are a few cases in pyrotechny where it can be useful.

Lloyd
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richardh08
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by richardh08 »

Fair enough!

I was only wishing to point out an issue that needs considering.
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sambo
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by sambo »

Best way is to make it and see. I'm interested to know what route you're using to make your perchloric acid ?
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Pyro-Gear »

Basically it is very hydroscopic and of little use for our hobby however it could be bound with nitro cellulose, but to be honest as a red I think we could do without it, nevertheless the chemistry is interesting and the subject may be better in the chemistry section! Mod’s!
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richardh08
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by richardh08 »

You have a point there, Ken. 'Chemistry' is clearly the right place for this discussion. You caught me (us) sleeping on the job.
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Rob.L.
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Rob.L. »

sambo wrote:Best way is to make it and see. I'm interested to know what route you're using to make your perchloric acid ?
I already have a fair quantity of 60% HCLO4.

One of those one off acquisitions that will unlikely be repeated.

The purpose of making other perchlorates is purely experimental. As time allows I will look at the others.
I know that the chemicals that are suitable for pyrotechnics have mostly been defined by now so I am aware of the likely reasons for not using anything else

Thanks for the input folks.
I always like to ask 'out there' before attempting synthesis as potential issues can be avoided beforehand. Going in blind is good.....coming out the other side blind is not!

Ken, I thought I had posted in the chemistry section ! will take more care in future.
sambo
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by sambo »

Rob,

thank you for allowing me to make some measurements and observations with this compound.

The first thing to say is it is extremely hygroscopic and very difficult to dry, even once it yields its water of crystallisation it then seems to decompose rather than dry further. It has a very low melting point, well under 100 degrees centigrade. BUT ! this gives rise to a remarkable property. If you mix with a stoichiometric quantity of hexamine it will become molten and flash and strobe as the gas escapes in burst from the mix. Small granules of this give glittery piercing red flashes with variable delay. These flashes are blindingly intense, like nothing I have ever seen, and almost too bright to view directly. I'd imagine this would make a very powerful ( and very red ) flash composition with aluminium.

thanks Rob, I owe you one, what a lot of fun !

Sam.
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Boophoenix
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Boophoenix »

Sounds quite interesting Sambo.

I'm envious of the chemistry knowledge about here. I had to pick up a chemical dictionary to help me out a little and it's still not completely informative, lol.

I've got a little lithium perchlorate to tinker wth someday.
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Pyro-Gear
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Pyro-Gear »

An intense red flash can be obtained using strontium peroxide, a 70/30 mix using German dark is awesome in the air, not knocking your research Sam but it works well, plus I have heaps of it LOL.
sambo
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by sambo »

yes you're right I have played a bit with Strontium Peroxide. The strobe effect is interesting. Although at the moment this compound is doing a very good job of regenerating my silica gel in the dessicator !
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Lloyd
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Lloyd »

Hah! Sambo, that is hilarious! <grin>

Lloyd
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richardh08
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by richardh08 »

Well, I did point out that it is hygroscopic :lol:
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Rob.L.
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Re: Strontium perchlorate.

Post by Rob.L. »

Well, this is all great stuff folks. Just the type of combined effort that makes this all the more interesting.

Whilst we all know of the standard pyro experiments it is good to venture out sometimes.

Remember all of the scientists that stumbled upon things by chance, we owe them a lot.

Observations and experiments that kindle interest. Great.

With the chore of getting life in order at the moment I have not had time to do this myself. I am really chomping at the bit now though.

I am going to delve into the transition metal perchlorates a bit further when time allows.

Obviously any readers of this who are new and want to try this out please take into consideration that those of us with the facilities to do this are fairly experianced folk with a great respect for the reagents we use. DO YOUR HOMEWORK FIRST. None of us want an issue with safety.

Myself and others have fully equipped facilities that we audit from time to time and take great care to keep safe and lawful. A lot goes on behind the scenes of a forum post. One fellow experimenter I know had a pre arranged visit from Fire authority,Hazmat personnell and Anti Terrorist. All at the same time!!

The parting comment was "you keep better standards than some universities and commercial facilities we've seen" He also got some free smoke alarms!!

The risk here is inadvertantly producing an unstable anhydrous Perchlorates with contaminated reagents, probably in dirty glassware......

As Ken says there are plenty of other tried and tested compositions using standard commercially produced chemicals that are fun,exciting and, more importantly, stable.
Also he does not want unsafe experiments encouraged on this forum, for all our sakes.

If in doubt, ask. We are all here help you get it right.

Thanks everyone for your contributions so far.
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